tag:blogger.com,1999:blog-2761538946854485154.post2206476035250046801..comments2024-03-11T03:02:29.875-06:00Comments on Simple Massing Priest: Considering the Anglican CovenantMalcolm+http://www.blogger.com/profile/08469936715413110334noreply@blogger.comBlogger5125tag:blogger.com,1999:blog-2761538946854485154.post-71750955492477956482010-01-15T12:56:41.303-06:002010-01-15T12:56:41.303-06:00Malcolm, amen to all opinions in this entry. As a ...Malcolm, amen to all opinions in this entry. As a convert to the ACC, my hope is that the Canadian church will realize the huge changes in polity that this covenant would bring. That centralization alone should be enough to reject the covenant.<br /><br />Thanks for your blog: a light in the wilderness for me sometimes. As a layperson, I often don't have much sense of what the larger Canadian church thinks or feels.ginny s.noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-2761538946854485154.post-12052259812529758122010-01-14T16:28:46.528-06:002010-01-14T16:28:46.528-06:00Notionally, Tobias is correct that Provinces could...Notionally, Tobias is correct that Provinces could respond by proposing changes. I don't think that's a viable strategy, unless all the Covenant-sceptic provinces coordinated their responses.<br /><br />I don't think it's dishonest to be upfront about my position - which is mione, not anyone else's - that it is highly unlikely anyone could convince me this Covenant is a good thing. I nonetheless think my Church's approach to the matter should be an open and transparent process involving the broadest possible consultation among Canadian Anglicans. In that process, I personally will be calling for the Covenant to be rejected. I may be knocked on the ass on the road to Damascus, but I don't expect so.Malcolm+https://www.blogger.com/profile/08469936715413110334noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-2761538946854485154.post-82518689223362418292010-01-14T14:06:28.609-06:002010-01-14T14:06:28.609-06:00But Tobias also says that a third response could b...But Tobias also says that a third response could be to discuss the covenant and then make a counter proposal, or say which sections would need changing for TEC to be able to sign.<br /><br />The whole point is that a truly constructive approach requires an adult level of engagement. And maybe a firm view of the outcome prior to doing that isn't entirely honest?Erika Bakerhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/01812376497361267014noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-2761538946854485154.post-81151057013460126432010-01-14T09:50:04.676-06:002010-01-14T09:50:04.676-06:00I concede Tobias's main point that the Covenan...I concede Tobias's main point that the Covenant should be examined on its own merits and not dismissed purely because of its appalling provenance. It is difficult to imagine how a tree so poisoned by backroom dealing and manipulation could possibly produce an edible fruit, but it is possible - if only to God.<br /><br />However, I believe that Section 4, despite its more diplomatic tone, is still a radical redefinition of Anglican polity and ecclesiology. <br /><br />As described by Archbishop Runcie:<br /><br />"One of the characteristics of Anglicanism is our Reformation inheritance of national or provincial autonomy. The Anglican tradition is thus opposed to centralism and encourages the thriving of variety."<br /><br />The Covenant overturns that - absolutely and unequivocally.Malcolm+https://www.blogger.com/profile/08469936715413110334noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-2761538946854485154.post-76688081998496790272010-01-14T04:46:13.048-06:002010-01-14T04:46:13.048-06:00Malcolm, I'm finding myself more and more conv...Malcolm, I'm finding myself more and more convinced by Tobias Haller's argument, that it's time to take the Covenant at its word rather than according to the intentions of those who drafted it.<br /><br />And it if, after careful scrutiny of it, it is possible to say "we continue to affirm lgbt people in our church and to ordain them as priests and bishops, and we are also willing to sign the Covenant", then there should be no reason not to sign it.<br /><br />I'm not sure you can genuinely evaluate a document when you've already made up your mind about it in advance.Erika Bakerhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/01812376497361267014noreply@blogger.com